009: Real Estate & Later Life: Would You Like to Save Some Money? – Alison MacCracken

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (00:02)
Moving your mom or your dad or yourself isn't just about moving things from one place to another. It is much more complicated than that, as are so many things having to do with later life. How to Move Your Mom and Still be on Speaking Terms Afterward provides in depth conversations with professionals, older adults, and their family members who share their stories with warmth, understanding and humor. I'm your host, Marty Stevens-Heebner, and here you'll find answers to many of your questions as well as different perspectives that I hope will inform and inspire you. Welcome to our next episode of How to Move Your Mom and Still be on Speaking Terms Afterward. I have the honor of being with Alison MacCracken of Sotheby's Realty and the MacCracken team. Thank you so much for being with me, Alison.

Alison MacCracken: (00:53)
Oh, thank you for having me, Marty. It's a pleasure.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (00:56)
Oh, you're so great. Let me tell you a little bit about Alison. Ranked among the top 1% of realtors across the U.S. and well known around the globe as well. Alison MacCracken's knowledge of real estate knows no bounds. Trust me. As a realtor with Sotheby's International Realty, she built The MacCracken Team, which serves all of Los Angeles county. And it's a big county. Because Alison has a very special place in her heart for old adults and their families, each of our team's realtors is a certified senior real estate specialist. Which means they're all experts at working with those who are 55 years old or older.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (01:35)
There are important implications for older adults. So that's why that certification really means something very important, and we're going to discuss that in a few minutes. Alison also serves as a founding board member and vice chair of Westside Pacific Villages, a nonprofit dedicated to helping older adults live out their years in their own homes by galvanizing the community around them. There's a larger village movement that's nationwide that Alison's also involved with at both at the local state and national level. It's just remarkable. All of that, and she's the daughter of aging parents, so she really gets this, a loving wife and a very devoted mother. Alison you're remarkable. Just [inaudible 00:02:18] thank you for finding time in your schedule. Oh my goodness. So talk to me about your favorite memory of your grandparents.

Alison MacCracken: (02:26)
Well, I only grew up with my mother's father, my grandfather, who we referred to as pops, my other grandparents had passed on prior to me being here. So I had a very strong bond with my grandfather. And my favorite aspects about my grandfather was advice he gave me. And two that really stick out are always travel is the best education. Anytime you're given an opportunity to travel, just say, yes, just go. And the other one was, it doesn't matter how you believe just as long as you believe. The importance of recognizing how small we really are in this big universe and that we're really not in charge. And it really right sized me as a child and as a member of the community.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (03:11)
That's wonderful. And especially, it's about acceptance too of other people and their beliefs. We are very small. I like to go out sometime to just look at the stars when I'm stressed out. It's like, I'm very small part of this. What do you love about what you do?

Alison MacCracken: (03:25)
I think at the end of the day, we're really about quality not quantity. And even though we happen to have quite a bit of quantity right now, the relationships we build with our clients are truly, they are lifelong. We make a difference in their lives, whether it's the adult children or the parents themselves, and we form friendships. Most of my clients are all truly now my friends, if they haven't passed on. And so that's the best part. It's always a different story. It's always a different client. Everybody's needs are slightly different. But at the end of the day, the service we provide and the quality of the relationship is really what I enjoy.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (04:03)
You have such a warm personality, so it's just natural that people want to stay in touch afterwards. Fantastic. Now, how were you drawn to working with old adults and their families?

Alison MacCracken: (04:15)
Real estate has always been my sixth sense. And so I knew that real estate was my calling professionally. But in order to really fulfill my heart, I had to combine working with what I'm very passionate about. And that's protecting seniors. Some people are passionate about protecting animals or less privileged children. For me, it's always been about protecting our elders, and I was lucky to find a way to blend those two things, the real estate and seniors.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (04:45)
You can really go home at the end of the day knowing you really made an impact on someone's life, especially in this very hot real estate market. What does it take to make a home safe and comfortable for people to live out their later lives in?

Alison MacCracken: (04:58)
There's a lot of different aspects depending upon the home itself. Are there trip hazards? Are there two stories? Is there a place to put in an elevator? Is there an easy way in from the garage to the front door? Is arthritis an issue and the windows are too difficult to crank open? So there's so many different things that go into deciding, how to stay home, if you should stay home? And then creating a safe environment. And it's not just safe, it's really important to create an inviting environment. There's nothing more depressing than being faced with a disability on a regular basis. So we really strive to look for solutions that eliminate the need to be reminded that we're aging, because we're all aging. And it's really frustrating when we have to face that reality. So if we can eliminate that in our homes, then it really leads to just a happier life.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (05:52)
Growing old is wonderful because you get all this wisdom, but then come the aches and pains. That's what's really awful. Now, you brought up in terms of disabilities, you have a sister who is considered special needs. Those with special needs, they and seniors can benefit from some of the same modifications and things in their home. Right?

Alison MacCracken: (06:11)
Absolutely. Yes, my sister was unfortunately paralyzed from the neck down. And we had to go through modifying our homes for her physical disabilities. And we learned so much through that process. The physical changes aren't necessarily the worst part, it's the emotional side of it. And so, to be able to recognize where we can minimize the emotional impact is really, I think the most beneficial part of it.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (06:37)
That's fantastic. And you are also a very active member of the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society, correct? Because of that?

Alison MacCracken: (06:44)
Part of it. Yes. We definitely support so many causes that kind of circulate around how we've been touched through our lives, whether it's leukemia or Alzheimer's or anything really.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (06:54)
And I'm wondering too, people think of the ramps going into the home. And if you're remodeling your home, especially your bathroom, just make it great for aging in place. Just a walk in shower, no little rim. What other things can they do?

Alison MacCracken: (07:08)
So zero threshold showers are a perfect example of a way to modernize a bathroom without having it obvious that there's something that you're having to step over. Wider hallways. If you're going to do a major house remodel, I would recommend consulting somebody that specializes in this. Because it doesn't have to be for someone who's aging, it could be actually just for anybody. And the benefits of it are going to be more natural light, better placed fixtures, easier fixtures. Everything is really designed to simplify your life. Forget worrying about walkers and wheelchairs, also consider what life would be like with my young child. Getting a stroller inside a house or in a certain area is not the easiest thing to do. So the universal design approach benefits everybody, not just people that are aging or have a disability.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (07:58)
I find it so interesting. Because as a realtor, you're helping people sell their homes and move out with them. And yet with your involvement in the village movement and Westside Pacific Villages, you're really all about keeping people in their homes as they age. Talk to me about that. Because that's very interesting. It's kind of a paradox in a way.

Alison MacCracken: (08:18)
What's in interesting is that 95% of older adults want to die in their homes. They do not want to leave. They do not want to go to an assisted living. Assisted livings are fantastic and they are very beneficial for multiple people. But the majority of people want to age in their homes, age in place. And there's nothing better than allowing somebody to do that. Now the village movement is basically neighbors helping neighbors. So imagine taking out your trash cans in LA, they can get so heavy if you really fill them up. And that's a major fall risk for a senior or someone who's broken their leg and they can't do it themselves. So we coordinate, let's say, the high school students to come every week and take out your trash cans and put them back. Or we have hair and nail day. So, on Fridays, we round everybody up, pre-COVID, and we take them all out.

Alison MacCracken: (09:07)
It's just good old fashion neighborly values that we've been able to implement. And the interesting thing about it is, yes, it's a way to keep people in their homes longer and happier, but it creates a thriving community. And then those communities become more desirable to move too. So when people are moving from one location to another, whether they're migrating to be closer to their grandkids, now people are seeking out areas that have villages so there's built in support right away and new friends and places to volunteer and services to be provided. Whereas before, everybody was afraid to make a big jump because they didn't have something just to plug into.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (09:47)
And also because, Los Angeles, especially, we tend to feel very disconnected from our neighbors. It's a very odd experience coming from Buffalo, where we all knew each other so well. And I can only imagine how everybody feels more connected in that community because of this. What did it take to launch Westside Pacific Villages?

Alison MacCracken: (10:06)
Well, we started the process almost 12 years ago, and then we officially opened our doors 10 and a half years ago. So there was a lot that led up to opening, a strong board, identifying the membership prior to opening, funding, office space. But it's funny, 10 years ago, that that was a long time ago. And if you fast forward now to the different pieces of technology we have, as well as COVID and the impact that has left on us, is people desiring communities. Launching a village can be very quick, I feel like these days. And part of that is by using things like Facebook groups to just create a micro village, maybe just your street. Maybe now your street is all on a Facebook group page, and you're all watching out for each other. Because that's, at the end of the day, all we do. We just watch out for each other. I feel like we've come a long way in the past decade with technology to help fast track creating villages.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (11:04)
And with Zoom having forced us to work remotely, so we're more comfortable also meeting remotely. Which can really help facilitate meetings and things like that. And taking less time because you don't have to be in the car. And if you're in LA, you're in your car all the time. If you're not meeting remotely, it's such a pain. What is the overall village movement all about?

Alison MacCracken: (11:26)
It's about aging in place. So it started back in Boston, in Beacon Hill Village, in 2005, I believe. And it was a bunch of neighbors that got together that said, "We're not going to lose our independence as we age. We're going to band together. We're going to look out for each other. We're going to enjoy our retirement years. We're going to travel together." So it was really this combination of a social club, with a little bit of building security, friendships, ways to stay engaged in the community to combat isolation. And so, I think the real main points of a village are to feel connected, to feel safe, and to thrive in your home. To really prolong being able to stay independent for as long as possible.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (12:11)
This makes me think that what kinds of areas are good for a village, whether it is urban, urban suburban, rural, what do you think?

Alison MacCracken: (12:21)
They're all over. There's suburban, urban suburban, rural. Each village has different challenges with whether it's geography or technology, wifi out in some of the rural areas is really difficult, transportation. LA is very big on transportation with our membership. Whereas in other areas like Boston or New York, where there is public transportation and it's commonly used even into your later years, transportation isn't the number one request. So every village reflects the needs of the community. So we don't shovel snow out here in LA.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (13:00)
We do in Buffalo.

Alison MacCracken: (13:03)
In Buffalo that might be one of the services that the village provides, is making sure your driveway is shoveled or whatever it may be. So it's very organic, it's grassroots as a national movement. We come up with different ways of fundraising and board combinations and so forth. But at the end of the day, each village is very unique to the neighborhoods they serve.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (13:26)
You know as well as I do, that social isolation is a huge part of developing dementia. It's so important to really remain engaged. And I can only imagine how the village movement can really keep people engaged because they have people coming to visit. But also somebody might say, "I know so and so down the block, do you know her? Because she actually went to the same school you did, or was a member of the same club, you need to meet her." So that can really mitigate that feeling of being so isolated that's such a concern.

Alison MacCracken: (13:58)
Absolutely. And interestingly enough, before COVID we were getting together four times a month. So, once a week we'd have coffee and conversation, we'd have a seminar, we'd bring people out, we'd have some sort of activity to bring people together. But then with COVID we had to quickly shift. So we started with a lot of daily phone calls, and then we would go out to people's porches and talk through windows, and then eventually with masks and different things, then we would drop off gift bags. Once a week we would go and we would drop off gift bags that were donated by different people in the community. And it would be something very similar, maybe just like a gift certificate for a cup of coffee, but it allowed that time to connect with the seniors. And to this day, it's the most appreciated event of our village.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (14:45)
What a great thing to get a goody bag once a week. Who doesn't love that? And a visit. That's wonderful. I want to get back to your work as a realtor, because you are obviously fantastic at it. And I would like you to talk about all the benefits of working with someone who is a certified senior real estate specialist.

Alison MacCracken: (15:04)
I think the most important piece is, when you work with a good SRES, and it's very important to interview and make sure you are working with a good one, is that they understand certain financial ramifications as well as the emotional side of going through a stressful process, such as moving and leaving your home.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (15:23)
Can I quickly ask you one thing, you said, be sure they're a good one. What are you looking for to determine if they are really good at what they do and really concerned about old adults and their families?

Alison MacCracken: (15:33)
First off, of all of your clients, your transactions in the past year, how many were related to seniors or did you work directly with seniors? So is it 50%? Is it 10%? Is it really, truly their main mission in their real estate experience? And then the next question is, do you work with estate planning attorneys? Or who are your resources that you use in a transaction that may help us? You may already have those resources. You may already have your estate planning attorney and maybe an in-home care provider, but you need to hear that they have theirs as well for referral purposes. Because that's a really tell tale sign if someone's truly invested in the benefit of someone who's aging.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (16:20)
That's one thing about you Alison, you are very well connected. And it's really having those estate planning attorneys, knowing the care managers, the caregivers, knowing the difference between those two, et cetera. But let's talk more about the tax and financial aspects of people who are 55 years and older and selling their property.

Alison MacCracken: (16:39)
So, in California, when you're 55, then you're considered a senior, which is way too young, but it [crosstalk 00:16:46]

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (16:45)
It really is.

Alison MacCracken: (16:46)
Take this one, but be grateful because it's a good one to be younger. So there's certain tax perks. So those allow you to transfer your tax base. So real quick, imagine you bought your home 30 years ago for $100,000, you're paying taxes on the base of your $100,000 purchase. Now, fast forward, 30 years, your house is worth $2 million and you want to sell your house and buy another house, because maybe your current house is two stories and you want to go to a single level. So you're going to sell your $2 million house, and then when you go to buy, let's just say, your next $2 million house, because you're in the same area, same market, you're able to transfer your tax base from the $100,000 to your new home. So, it's huge. But if you don't check off the right box on the sales forms, you'll miss it. That's what we excel at, in making sure people understand all of these benefits when they're over the age of 55. The ability to sell and transfer your tax base, there's a lot of pros to it.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (17:46)
When I would hear those things come up in meetings and I thought, what's that? And it may have been you who finally explained it to me. It's something to be so aware of when you're older and selling your home, whether it's here or I imagine in other states as well, they have certain benefits?

Alison MacCracken: (18:01)
In other states as well they do. They're all different. I'm currently researching a bunch of different states right now as we look at people rolling out of California and investing in other states, and trying to identify where are the best perks for seniors. Like in North Carolina, if you're over the age of 65, there are tax breaks and so forth. So, every state is different. Every probably city and county is different. So you definitely need to ask whoever you're hiring, what do you know about this? And this step of tax basis, maybe selling a home actually isn't the right thing to do. Maybe leasing out a home is the better approach. If someone's approaching death, we want to wait until someone passes away before we actually sell a home. But the devil's in the details. And so we know our details.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (18:45)
Especially with someone who is really touching the end of their life. You don't want to completely disrupt the home environment, unless you absolutely have to. Sometimes people need to go what we call here, board and cares. So something like that to have that 24 hour attention. But if that's not necessary, or if you can afford an in-home caregiver, wonderful. And that way it's not so disrupted and they feel more comfortable in their own home. You pay such close attention to your clients. I know that makes you and your MacCracken team very distinctive, but what other things are very distinctive about what you do?

Alison MacCracken: (19:21)
Oftentimes realtors come in right before a sale, they get the house ready, they put it on the market, they sell it, and then that's the end of your time with them. For us, [inaudible 00:19:31] on average are involved in our client's lives between two and three years. I've had some going on eight years or 10 years right now, because this is usually the last move. This has been the family home. It's a huge decision. So it really takes a lot of time and thought. We're also dealing with people that are a little bit more frail. So we bring in different specialists to help with the move, with the process of clearing out 70 years of memories, is very overwhelming.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (19:58)
Been there.

Alison MacCracken: (19:59)
Yeah. You know.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (20:02)
Yeah.

Alison MacCracken: (20:03)
And that really does actually lead in to our great relationships with our clients because we're not pushy. We're very conscientious of the emotional side of it, the physical side of it, the other family members involved and the financial pieces. So there's a lot of patience involved.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (20:20)
And really building those relationships and understanding what is important to that individual client.

Alison MacCracken: (20:26)
Oftentimes there are a lot of differing opinions, where mom may feel, I'm completely fine staying in my home, but the son who is across the country is not comfortable with her staying in the home for his own fears. And we can create a solution where she stays in the home and makes him feel comfortable, which allows her to stay in the home longer. He feels good. It was only because he was unaware of the solutions that are out there. So that really helps keep people in their homes, which, eventually, we sell them. But if we can keep them there longer, it's better.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (21:01)
And part of the details that Alison can include are, for example, if someone is moving, any modifications that need to be put in, and we've talked about this briefly already, but it's putting in the bathrooms, maybe some ramps, making things really accessible, like even kitchen faucets.

Alison MacCracken: (21:19)
Kitchen faucets, people don't think about window handles and door handles and placement of light switches, height of counter tops. One of the most important things I find which everybody wants, so put it in any home, is just smart, organized storage. And I know you can appreciate that, Marty.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (21:37)
I sure do. Yes, I do.

Alison MacCracken: (21:39)
Pantries with pullout shelves. Things that aren't so high you need a step stool to get up to the top. Really trying to keep things at waist height as much as possible, great storage spaces, because typically you're usually downsizing from a larger home to a smaller home. So, the linen closet, the pantry, the garage is very well organized. Invest in great cabinetry. You don't need as much space as long as it's organized properly. And so it's just-

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (22:08)
I could not agree more. It's interesting because you talked about making things about waist height, what we do, and I think this is good for anybody, is to organize the everyday items, things that you use up to once a month, certainly daily and weekly, organize them between about shoulder height and about mid thigh height. Things that you rarely use, holiday dishes, also just stuff you want to keep but may not use, we're all a little like that. Put those in the upper shelves and the very bottom shelves. Because that way, maybe just once a year you have to pull it out or get somebody to help you pull it out, makes it much easier. Also, make sure there's plenty of space in between furniture. Because those are sharp corners, easy to fall on. Also, you were talking about the wider hallways, who doesn't love higher hallways and just plenty of room to ambulate. God forbid you trip and fall on something, you don't want to hit the corner of that furniture. It's amazing what you can do to make things more comfortable.

Alison MacCracken: (23:03)
Definitely. And if you are in the process of looking to buy a new home or even build your own home, I mean, we work in all price ranges from 500,000 to 50 million. So we have clients that can design whatever they want, but sometimes they aren't even thinking down the road 20 years, or even if you break a leg or something. Design a house where you know where you would put an elevator should you need it one day rather than having to install a chair ramp. It's very easy to stack closets on top of each other and then know that one day that's where the elevator can go in. A lot of the newer homes now are really thinking about these things.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (23:41)
I know you're also working on remodeling your own home for aging in place. Everything's very accessible.

Alison MacCracken: (23:47)
Yeah. Maybe I created it in my mind, but I'm having to have a hip replacement in the next couple of months. I'm not your standard age to need a hip replaced.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (23:56)
I was going to say you're so young for that, but it happens.

Alison MacCracken: (24:00)
It happens. You break legs. Thankfully, we live in a single story home where I didn't have to think about, how am I going to get up the stairs to get to the shower. So we are designing our home, remodeling it, with the intent that people can come and see how we've designed it should they ever want to replicate it, kind of be a model home. So, wider hallways, lots of natural lights, skylights, ramps that you would never really think, "Oh, this ramp was designed for someone in a wheelchair." Just it's a beautiful, "Why didn't people do this before?" Type of thing.

Alison MacCracken: (24:33)
I guarantee you getting the groceries in the house are going to be a lot easier. And then where the laundry room is, where the storage is, how the bathrooms are designed, the types of windows we choose, the way we design the landscaping and low maintenance and front porches. Front porches to me are super important in staying connected with your neighbors. Being able to go out front and sit and wave, hi, to your neighbor while they walk by with their dog. I might not be able to physically go walk right now, but I can at least participate in the community that way. So, all sorts of things that don't scream out, I need help. Just great smart ways to design a house that really makes you feel alive.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (25:16)
And is welcoming. And you mentioned the baby strollers. So it's easier for parents with very little kids.

Alison MacCracken: (25:24)
Dog strollers, most people have dogs now with dog strollers. Even luggage, those of you that travel a lot. It's just smarter. At the end of the day, it's just smart design that benefits everyone. And sadly, only 4% of homes in the United States are actually accessible to people with disabilities. So there's a huge market out there.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (25:47)
Especially if you're a contractor. Hmm.

Alison MacCracken: (25:49)
Yeah.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (25:50)
It's interesting because you mentioned that you work with homes that are worth $500,000 and homes that are worth 5 million. For people who don't live in Los Angeles-

Alison MacCracken: (25:58)
50 million.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (25:59)
50. I'm so sorry. 50 million and up. For Los Angeles, 500,000 is the lower end of real estate. That'll get you a condo at the most. I want to explain that because there are a lot of listeners who will be out in more rural parts where $500,000 is a lot. What's the toughest part about your job especially as a realtor?

Alison MacCracken: (26:21)
For me personally, the hardest part about my job is when I meet clients and then and I go into the meeting where I know it's the last time I'm going to see them. So, recently, we've said goodbye to two ladies that were moving to Boston to be closer to their kids. And it's sad because they know it, and we know it, that wherever they're moving to is likely going to be their last destination, and also leaving their family home typically of decades is so emotional. And so just to be a part of that experience, that's the hardest part. But you just want to say, "No, you can say as long as you want."

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (27:03)
Don't go.

Alison MacCracken: (27:04)
But you don't always get those choices, but that's the hardest part.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (27:09)
They bought their home, as you say, decades ago for a very low price. And you had mentioned somebody bought a home for $100,000 and now it's worth 2 million. Yes, that happens here in Los Angeles. If they bought it 40 years ago, it's amazing how much the proper rates have gone up. And you are an expert at handling all this you and your MacCracken team. Just wonderful. Thank you so much for finding the time to squeeze this interview into your schedule. I really appreciate it, Alison.

Alison MacCracken: (27:35)
Well, thank you, Marty. We love working with you on our projects. It's really an honor that you had me on your podcast and I really appreciate it. So, thank you.

Marty Stevens-Heebner: (27:44)
You are so welcome, and it's always great to work with you too. Thank you so much for listening to, How to Move Your Mom and Still be on Speaking Terms Afterward. Please visit howtomoveyourmom.com for more information about this episode and for additional podcast episodes featuring other extraordinary guests and conversations. Until next time, this is your very grateful host, Marty Stevens-Heebner.