015: What’s on your Legacy List?: Family Treasures that Tell Your Family’s Story – Matt Paxton

[00:00:00] Marty Stevens-Heebner: What sort of legacy would you like to leave behind after you're gone? I never really put any thought into it until our next guest Matt Paxton invented the “Legacy List.”

Moving your mom or your dad or yourself. Isn't just about moving things from one place to another. It is much more complicated than that as are so many things to do with later life. How to move your mom and still be on speaking terms afterward provides in-depth conversations with professionals, old, older adults and their family members who share their stories with warmth and understanding I'm your host, Marty Stevens- Heebner and here you'll find answers to many of your questions as well as different perspectives that I hope will inspire you.

[00:01:06] Marty Stevens-Heebner: Thank you very much.

[00:01:07] Matt Paxton: I'm excited to be on I'm a listener and is excited to be on the podcast for years now in a decade, I think. Yeah,

[00:01:15] Marty Stevens-Heebner: Matt Paxton is one of the top cleaning, downsizing, decluttering, and hoarding experts in the country.

He was already an expert at hoarding before he joined the show hoarders for 12 years. Now as his reward for that, he hosts the Emmy nominated PBS show legacy list with Matt Paxton. And if you haven't watched it, you really need to, because it's so inspiring and wonderful. He's also the author of the secret lives of borders.

True stories of tackling extreme clutter and his newly released book. Keep the memories, lose the stuff, declutter, downsize, and move forward with your life. Matt lives in Atlanta, Georgia with his new wife and seven kids, or as Matt likes to point out one more than the Brady bunch played. His moved to Georgia was a fairly recent one.

And we'll get to talk about that later. Uh, Matt, I'd like to start out by asking what's your favorite memory of your grandparents?

[00:02:14] Matt Paxton: But my best story is my grandma. She always told the story. They lived in Oklahoma. And they would go to vacation in this little town outside of Walden, Colorado. And my grandpa went in to get nightcrawlers, to go through.

And she goes, you knew it was in there for 10 minutes longer than he normally was. So I knew something was up and I think he ever tell him the story to him. And he came out and he goes, we're moving here. I bought the store. She goes, okay. And they moved there and they lived there for 30 some years until they had this ranch.

And then he has this country to where they both ended up becoming postmaster. It was an amazing story and they were just hardworking, dedicated people. They didn't believe in buying anything. You didn't eat anything unless you grew it or went and hunted for it. That house was at 9,900 elevation. So the house was listed at 10,000 and I'd spend the whole summer there working on their ranch because their growing season was four months.

They didn't have snow four months a year and they would have to create all their food that four months. And so it was really hard living by. And I got a lot of good stories sitting on horses and sitting on tractors. I took me till I got them 47. It took me 47 years to appreciate the memories and the experiences you had as a kid.

And I had to clean a lot of houses too, to really understand. I didn't realize that was the best part of the job like you and I do this week. We get to clean up people's houses with. And it was amazing, but you don't realize how incredible the stories are and how addicting they are. And that's what keeps you going.

It's these little just incredible stories that someone drops on you and it just keeps you going. I did a speech a couple of weeks ago called hug and a check. It's the only job that someone gives you a hug, and then they give you a check. That's the coolest equation in the world.

[00:03:58] Marty Stevens-Heebner: What other profession does that

[00:03:59] Matt Paxton: happen in?

I've listened to your podcast. So I know you really get into the stories, but for me, I, it probably took me till about five years ago to rise. Okay. Look, this is my angle. I'm going to wrap around the store. That's what I identify the most with, but you've hung out with me at a bar. Like I tell a lot of stories and Marty and I have met at many conferences and a lot of the work at NASA conferences.

All of us just hanging out at the bar, talking now.

[00:04:22] Marty Stevens-Heebner: Our brains are built to remember stories where they're just built to do that. And your journey is fascinating because of course I've read your book and the way you were drawn to this. Cause there was the personal experience of cleaning out your father's house with rich really impacted you.

And then the word got around

[00:04:38] Matt Paxton: town. I lost my dad, my stepdad, and both of my grandfathers in about 18 months. And so that farm, I just told you about, I had to go clean. With my grandma and I found all these notes from my grandfather. They lived there for 30 some years, just the two of them. And they would spend from November 1st, basically to March 1st, they were.

Just the two of them and they would plan their garden for the next season. That's what they did. They didn't have TV, they had radio, they would listen to the Broncos games, but we really just hung out together very quietly. And they, and they worked all summers. So they could just live in this house that they built.

And I got to go through that house with my grandma after my grandfather died. And he had left her notes everywhere. Like this is a light bulb for this, and this is a light bulb and oh my God, this, I have to tell this story. They got married when they were 16. My grandma wanted to marry him at 40. And could you imagine in her mom wouldn't let her.

And he was 86 when he died. So do the math 70 years that we're married. She never forgot that her mom didn't let her marry him at 14 and never forget. We were cleaning out the house and I'm in the basement, like basically with flashlights and I find an old tackle box and old fishing box. And it's all the papers from Oklahoma.

My grandpa had them all organized my grandma in the basement. We're going through this and she's wait a minute. We found her parents' wedding certificate and wedding license. My grandma was hardcore. Christian, never cursed men in her life. And she realized her mom was 14. When she got married. And she was furious.

She goes, dag gone it that woman from me, this is an 87 year old woman yelling at her mother because in her mind, her mother took two years from her when they dated, they just weren't married. So it wasn't like they missed all these good times, but it was amazing. I grew up in all of these just incredible loving stories and everywhere I turned, I'd see them.

And I'd love

[00:06:35] Marty Stevens-Heebner: the story about.

[00:06:38] Matt Paxton: That is a sweetheart man. She was the first non-family member and it was the first paying client should pay me $500. And it was like, wow. But that would have been like a $15,000 job nowadays. But at the time, no, I had no idea. It was like eight days, 10 hours a day. It was just me and her.

I didn't have a crew yet. I didn't have a truck. I had a 1993 Saturn station wagon. You could literally see the ground through the floor of the car. I would go to the. Three times a day because I fill up the station wagon I'll drop the stuff out. There was no 800 got junk. There was none of these things back then.

And he just had to figure it out. Adam was amazing. She was just kinda coming to terms with being single for the first time in her life. She wanted to stay in her home, but medical was making her have to move. We found the pictures of her and her or her husband yet. They were just dating and it was the night they got back from world war.

And she said she knew she was going to marry him that day. That night. It really felt like these two young kids coming together, you know, he was 20 years old. He was just got back from the war and they ended up being married for 50 some years. Just incredible stories. And any, these are stories you and I hear about.

Yeah, she was so upset about her stuff. And I'm like, honey, you've already sent your boyfriend off to war. This is not going to be as hard as that. And she's kind of like, you're right. And I can't remember what got edited out of the book or not, but she was just this bad ass, excuse my language woman. And you've met a hundred of them.

And I think hopefully a lot of your listeners are the same way. The history of the stories that y'all have is something that might generate. We'll never experience

[00:08:07] Marty Stevens-Heebner: granted that demographic that went through world war II and also the depression and all that. They are the greatest generation. I also call them the deprivation generation because of going through the depression and world war II and all the rationing.

When you live through those kinds of hardship. It creates a certain perspective when it comes to things. And I know you and I have to deal with that quite a bit because it's difficult for them to let go. Let's talk more about that. What do you think causes that?

[00:08:36] Matt Paxton: There's a lot to say on this. I think when you work so hard to achieve something, those items have more value.

My grandma, they literally started with nothing and they remember being on record. And they have the ration stamps and where you see the shoes that have been resoled six times. And it's because they did go through nothing, two things there. I think one is, they're just very proud of what they've accomplished because they have accomplished so much.

But secondarily and I learned this from the hoarders. They also take pride in what they came from. My grandma, she was Oklahoma dust bowl. I remember Asher said, what, what's the weirdest thing you ever saw? And she was like, oh, a car. I'll never forget. The first time I saw a car, I was 17 working in a field and picking cotton.

It's not that I knew what a car sounded like. It didn't sound like a horse. I didn't hear the clock. I heard this and they looked up and they saw a car. And six months later, I got to use a bathroom in doors, in a building in Oklahoma city. And that was mind blowing to her that she got to see a car and use the bathroom and saying years she'd already married and had a kid.

Wow. So the point of this is perspective and I'm really lucky to hang out with a lot of fascinating people. A lot of these women's take true pride. In living in squalor or living with nothing because the people they love that raised them did the same thing. So there's a little bit of pride in that deprivation.

It connects them with the people they loved. Our clients have the same feelings when they won't spend a nickel on anything. It's not that they're cheap. They take pride in behaving, like the people that they love. And it's really a celebration of the people before them. And I think we all have that at different light.

Yeah. I

[00:10:12] Marty Stevens-Heebner: remember at the start of the pandemic, people were making their own sourdough. Oh yeah. They were knitting and quilting and all those things. It's interesting that we went back, not backwards. We touched that part of ourselves. Like you say,

[00:10:28] Matt Paxton: Yeah, we all try to find positivity in what we're doing and where else better to look than our ancestors.

Look, I think there's some good that came out of the pandemic. A lot of people passed away and I hate that. And a lot of people got sick. God knows a lot of people in our house got sick. That just big family and stories took a bit of a jump forward and appreciation for the past. You and I have always seen that in our job.

Anyone that's listening here, if you're trying to figure out how to go through your parents' house, just stop and listen to the stories first, take your time. Those stories will get you through it. If you try to bang it out in a week. You don't have time to enjoy the stories. And also the stories sometimes put a, an emotional value on an item that didn't have financial value.

If you knew the story, all of a sudden everybody wants it. So I'm really saying that to both grandma. And then we have the oldest adult daughter, right? So mom and the oldest did hot dogs.

Two 60 five-year women and then 65 to 85. That's my two fan bases. And it's usually the oldest daughter who's having to make all these decisions. So I'm telling grandma, trust me, she wants your stuff. She just doesn't know the stories yet. And so it's not that she doesn't appreciate you. My grandma wanted me to have all of her China.

My mom wanted me to have the China. Her mom wants me at 10. I got my aunt's 10 and I'm like, guys, I'm a single man. I don't need three sets of China, but you know what I did want from my grandma, she had a bicycle. That she used to ride around town with this in, and one time we had a hill at the back of our neighborhood.

I'm gonna tell you another story because it's part of what I do. Oh, it's fun. We have this massive hill end of our neighborhood. It's about a, about a half mile down. It was called dead man's hill and folklore where someone died on it dead man's hill was like Christmas story type of legend to me. We would sled down it.

And one year when I was seven or eight nanny, so I called my grandma. Her name was nanny. She was probably 40 or 50 at the time we wrote her. And we were going pretty fast and my brother and I hit her. And she went flying down. Debbie. She was angry, man. She took her about an hour to get ready, to get back.

She had to go through all these streets and we were at home, my brother and I go home and she was so angry. She goes, why did you guys leave me? And we're like, oh, we're not allowed to ride down a dead man sale. She wanted to spank us. She was so angry and we'd just laugh. We have. So when she was downsizing, I was like, I don't want your China.

I don't want your crystal. I want that. Yeah, because my favorite memory is of the damn bike. It's not on the China. So I just went to both sides for the moms. Remember, you got to tell the story why that China matters, because I might want the China, if I know the story, why it matters to you, it's a context.

And then same thing to the kids. If you want that. Tell your grandma, why you wanted that bike? Cause she knows how much it means to her. She knows how much you mean to her. It runs both ways. Doesn't it? Every time I almost wrote two books and the original concept was it was going to be a two point view book.

It was going to be for mom and for daughter, you would read each page, but you would read it from your perspective. And I couldn't do it. It was too hard and no one would buy it, but you'll see throughout the book, I definitely have some communication techniques in there that if you feel like I'm talking to you, when you read the book, I am.

Either I've been there as a son, or I've seen it as a client where I've seen the fight people, because at the end of the day, when you're cleaning out. Someone's house, no matter which party you are, it's all about communication.

[00:13:39] Marty Stevens-Heebner: Interesting to when it's not necessarily the daughter or the mother, sometimes it's just mad.

Paxton. Who's moving into sending like his own client.

[00:13:47] Matt Paxton: Yeah. So middle of this book, I fell in love with this amazing woman and I realized I had to move. It's very easy to give advice. It's very hard to take your own advice. I was halfway through my book and I called my publisher and I was like, dude, I'm moving.

I got a downsize. Now. I think I got to put this as the book. I almost decided not to go. Like it got so hard to go through my stuff. Cause my attic was filled with divorce. It was filled with death. It was a shrine to people that I loved. It was avoidance to things that I didn't want to talk about. There was a lot of truth, not good truth in my attic.

And that's one challenge about that room and your space in your home. I love my wife more than anything in the world and the life we have now here with all seven kids, but now almost gave up on it because I couldn't face all those awful things in my attic. I remember calling her and I was like, I just don't think I can.

Now my wife is a minimalist, so she goes, so you're going to give up on me in our life for stuff. Oh yeah. I got to call you back and told me wrong. I struggle with three or four different times. So that was the moment when I finally connected with my clients and I've been helping for decades. It was like, oh, That's why they're having such a hard time.

It's

[00:14:58] Marty Stevens-Heebner: so different when it's somebody else's stuff it's much easier to organize and move that than it is to do your own. You actually made me feel better about your own house. I actually, I hire clear home solutions. In other words, I bring in my own staff to work with me.

[00:15:16] Matt Paxton: I do the same thing. Mike Keller from my TV show legacy lists actually had to come and help me do my attic because one thing I tell everybody is you got to have an audience for it.

So one of my big tips, you've got to have an audience. You can't tell a story to nobody. I've had families that have called me and been like, Hey man, your advice was amazing. We now do a legacy list night with our family. And grandma holds up items and tells a story and we record it. I'm like, oh, I love it.

That wasn't the plan, but I love it. But I needed Mike to go through the house with me. So as my best friend and former employee of 10 years, he did. And what a lucky man, you have to have that buddy that. I guarantee you there's some of those right now saying, well, that's great advice, man, but I'm a widower and I don't have anybody.

Let me tell you some people at church neighbors, friends guarantee you they're always offering help. And this is the perfect situation to take that advice. You say, you know what? Old lady from church, I am going to take you up on that. I need you to sit on a chair and listen to my stories for the next two days.

And I guarantee you they'll say yes and you'll end up having a plan. Because the stories are amazing. That's the best thing about my TV show legacy list. I've gotten to travel the country and I now believe you can do that show in any house in the country. Everybody really does have a story. And we have a family from Katrina on legacy lists this year.

He was an NBA basketball coach and they had just gotten there. They had to leave because of Katrina and they're in their car. They're driving. They have everything that matters to them and their two kids in two boxes. And he goes, it was. We got on the bridge two hours later, the water is almost up to the bridge.

We still haven't moved this rain sideways. It's raining everywhere. And he goes, we're just praying to God to get us off the bridge. And one of the kids on my production crew was like, what's Katrina. That's so recent for you and I, but there's kids. They'll remember it, same thing with nine 11. Every item is attached to some point in history, whether it be family history or life history and world history.

And I just think it's so important to tell the story, have somebody in the audience with you and it doesn't have to be your best friend. I wish there was a volunteer service, honestly, where you can just do that. Uh, your friends and

[00:17:16] Marty Stevens-Heebner: family are tired of hearing the

[00:17:17] Matt Paxton: stories. Mine are. I'll tell you that they are done here in.

Everything has a story. So I've just really become almost a preacher of tell us stories and you can let go of the items a little better. It makes

[00:17:29] Marty Stevens-Heebner: such a difference. So how did you move through your.

[00:17:32] Matt Paxton: Well, I had a really firm deadline and that was super important. My house sold real fast, like surprisingly fast.

And I had about a month to clean up my home. I just really set a schedule and I was just cleaning and doing a little bit every night. I was also leaving a community that I had lived in my entire life. And my dad and my grandfather had both lived in my entire life. I lived within four months. My entire 47 years, I had to prepare to say goodbye to the community, not just pack up some stuff.

It was very heavily emotional and had a few beers at my favorite places had more ice cream than beer. I'll say that. And this was in the pandemic. So it was hard to say goodbye. It wasn't a big, massive celebration. You

[00:18:11] Marty Stevens-Heebner: pointed out in the book that as you're getting ready to move, say goodbye to people at their homes for outside your home.

You don't want to spend those hours having to prepare food and all of that.

[00:18:22] Matt Paxton: I did have a packet party with a couple of good friends would just be like, Hey guys, I'm packing, come over, come and do the kitchen tonight. And so I'd have one or two guys and we would just tell stories and we'd pack up the whole kitchen.

And so I was able to use friends and wrap up that to saying goodbye part as well. Everyone's like, dude, you're doing good, man. I'm like, yeah. And I'm finally happy. It's such a joy to just be happy. It's my wife, Zoe. I knew she was worth the. I don't want to underscore what a lot of our listeners are going through.

They've lost that love. And so they're having to go to a new chapter in their life. Without that person, it was very easy for me because I was moving to a new chapter with someone new and solid. My grandpa always said, don't run away from something bad. Walk towards something. Good. I'll say that again.

Let's say that again. He said, if you running away from something bad is going to be bad. And if you're walking towards something good, it's going to be. It's a shift of perspective. And so I try to tell people, it was very simple for me to see what I was walking towards. I wasn't running away from anything you and I get to see people that are moving to a senior living community, or they're moving back to home, to age, in place with their adult children.

And nobody can see that it's going to be great in a year. We just see what. And there's no way for you to see what you're walking towards, but I'm begging people when they read this book, I really hope you're able to change perspective and see, you might be walking towards something better. You don't know it, but I promise you if you give it a hundred percent effort and you really try it is there.

It was literally like jumping. I was like,

[00:19:44] Marty Stevens-Heebner: all right, courage. Even when you're moving to Zoe and love and the Brady bunch plus one, that was

[00:19:50] Matt Paxton: a gamble. It was a jump.

[00:19:53] Marty Stevens-Heebner: I have this perspective on fear. Fear is our greatest ally. All I want us to do for us is help us survive even resistance. That's fear too. And the way I've changed my perspective is when I'm feeling that I kind of bring fear over, sit it down and say, okay, what's going on here?

You're putting me on alert. For some reason, you're making me really pay attention and giving me that adrenaline rush for some reason. Is it, and if it's the old baggage and we don't want that stopping me. And in your case, like I said, your entire life was in four miles.

[00:20:24] Matt Paxton: I was afraid of losing. Right. And now I have a daughter for the first time in my life, but like I'm having all these new experiences because I took that leap and you're right about fear.

I mean, never thought about it the way you said it. What a lucky opportunity to look at yourself and say, what's really going on here. We blame stuff. It is never about the stuff y'all like ever. It's just the easiest thing to blink. Like you blame your sister, cause you can always blame your sister. It's not always special sister boyfriends.

Usually it is the ex-boyfriend. I had a lady one time. I don't know if I'll put this in the book or not. Adelaide, two sisters are fighting over. And one wanted it. The other one had been gifted. It dad had died. They're just screaming at each other more than he loved me. And she was like, you're right. He did.

And they were saying hurtful stuff to each other. And finally she goes, I don't want the piano. I just don't want you to have it. Now it's like ladies, you are horrible to each other. Like what is going on? And individually, it would've been about a boy when they were like 14. And I was like, you guys are almost seven.

You guys have wasted 50 years over some loser. Let's look them up on Facebook. I made them look at what this Larry Guy was. Now you guys are fighting over this and it really made them laugh. Sky's 400 pounds. You could split them. Finally, I was able to. And be mad at him and not each other. And they ended up selling the piano.

They were able to have a come to Jesus about really what was bugging him. It had nothing to do disappeared. It was about something that happened when they were 15.

[00:21:43] Marty Stevens-Heebner: That's so frequently the situation they will obsess about this pencil and certainly address that and say, okay, got it. You really need that pencil.

And just know that there's something

[00:21:53] Matt Paxton: behind this. When did they give it to you? Where did you live when you got that pencil in? By the third question, we know what's up. I'm not saying this is a full press mandate. It doesn't work all the time, but it will get us started. It'll get us past some of the heavier parts of what really is homeless.

It's a pencil y'all often times I'll be like, all right, I'll give you a hundred bucks for that. And they'd be like, ah, I don't want to give you the pencil. I'm like you said, it was a hundred dollars here it is. And they'd be like, no, I'm like, all right, what's up now? Hey, I don't do that all the time, but I used to do it a lot.

I would keep a couple hundred dollars in my pocket for that exact reason, because I don't think it's ever about the money almost never. And it's rarely about this stuff now. There's a fine line. If you're the adult child helping, maybe mom's not ready to talk to you. All that stuff. Maybe she doesn't know that she can, we come across some very private stuff too.

A lot of people know my background. I had a big gambling addiction and I lost everything gambling and had to start over at twenty-five. I'm very open about it. I totally thought one time. I wonder how much I can get for being a prostitute. And I found out and I was like, oh God, no, I'd rather just go bankrupt.

But I went to a really low places and I'm like, guys, I know you're upset about this China, but I almost prostituted myself to pay off a gambling debt to a Bucky. You'd be like, that's horrible. I go, yeah. That's horrible. What you're going through it. And half spare thing is that, and then they start to tell a story that they're going through it.

You have to give somebody maybe a little freedom to tell their story because their story, what they're hiding is holding them back. It's really the emotions attached to the stuff that holds us back

[00:23:16] Marty Stevens-Heebner: and legacy list. You had the opportunity to work with a family who had quite the civil. Background and going through those photos, that was a very intriguing process that you wrote about this

[00:23:28] Matt Paxton: family.

It was an African-American family that had some of the first people in the 19 hundreds of Howard did. They had a business college in Brooklyn in 1908, specifically for African American families. They had a lot of African-American history. The most amazing one was they had a family photo, four generation photo of great grandma, grandma.

Mom and daughter, all four women for generations. Grandma was enslaved and then. In fact, she had a bracelet in the picture and we actually found that bracelet in the house when we were cleaning. And the family never knew that that bracelet was in that picture. And so the formerly enslaved grandma was wearing that bracelet and she was like, look, I can't give away these pictures.

Like I got to go through them. And I was like, you're exactly right. You have an extreme situation where you're very well-documented family. His father was one of the first African-American men on a mixed Navy ship during world war II. So in that situation, we actually did have to bring in a historian to like help them understand what they had.

And these two were also retired librarians, so there's nothing more important in the case with this family. And it was a real challenge. So for them pictures and letters and books is going to be the worst thing. So we put that to the. Right because it was so extreme, it was so much important things for them.

So it was really easy to go through the garage. It was really easy to go through. The entertainment room was good. He's even easy to go through the bedrooms. I normally say bedrooms for last, because it's the most private room, but for them it was the study man. It was the library that was their home. And then we were able to bring in a professional photo organizer for them on that, because that was above my skill set.

A lot of us have not really locked into professional photo organizers and they have skills and techniques that can help you get through your photos a lot better than even I can. And so for me, the moral story here is no matter where you are, there's probably a professional of what you're getting stuck with.

Just make sure the person knows what to do. And the organizers of taught. Back up your backup, have a backup of all your pictures digitally, and then also have another backup of that on a flash drive and have that stored somewhere else, like in a safe or something. I

[00:25:27] Marty Stevens-Heebner: love that you developed this idea of the legacy list.

I've watched your show and reading the book has inspired me to really think of that for my own life. And actually I was going through things in my own. My home office. And I came across this notebook full of press clippings from a company called re bags, which was the company I had prior to clear home solutions.

And there were all these press clippings. And I said, that's part of my. So what kinds of things come up most frequently when people are putting together their legacy

[00:26:01] Matt Paxton: lists? So legacy lists is really a list of five or six items that will define your family story and your history it's really meant to be like, how am I going to be remembered?

It originally started when I first started cleaning out houses, I started doing a technique where I'd be like, Hey, look, if your house catches on fire, what do you want to say? If you ask us is on fire, what do you have to have? I'd give them a piece of paper and say, just write down the items you have to have.

They would write like a hundred items and I'd be like, Your house is on fire. And I would pull out a stopwatch. You got 30 seconds go find him and they could never find any of them. And then through the years, that kind of progressed to what's the most important items what's going to leave your legacy.

And what I found was it was never financially valuable items. It was emotionally valuable items. Look, if it's that important, why are we not showing them? Why are we not displaying? Rarely is it something that the person I'm asking has done? You know, it's usually stuff from your mom, not you. And so I've tried to encourage people.

Remember this is going to be less for your next generation too. And so what are they going to know about you? They don't want it to just be about a great grandma that they never met. Both of my grandfathers were two of the most important people in my life when I was 24. I lost every man that raised me and I have six boys.

None of them ever met my father or any of my grandfathers. And so they don't care. Um, the only legacy they're going to know, I do have a cookbook from my mom. She put it together and it's all my grandmother's recipes. My great-grandmother's recipes, both my other nannies recipes, my mom's recipes. And so I have every recipe from like pretty much every woman that's ever raised me.

And here's the best part it's handwritten. And so it's actually the writing of all these women. And it's so cool. That's one of my favorite things is when I find a note from someone that mattered to me, if that was my grandfather's signature and I get really excited and that's one of the main things, my legacy lists, because it's all these roots, which by the way I found out they're incredibly unhealthy, all.

And anything, it starts with two sticks of butter. This is probably not something you should do everything in my mom's cookbook. Is it two sticks of butter? And then it goes on. But that to me is a legacy that will live on an album. One of my boys cooks out of that book. And so I get to see my son cooking with my mom out of that book.

And he's cooking recipes that my grandma made. And that's a great example of Thanksgiving. Like I love watching my son cook something. My grandma first made me and they didn't even know. So to me, that's a legacy list item. I really encourage people to find things like that and keep it to five or six and then display them.

You've got to make space. People got to see them. They're meant to be shared when you have people in your home and people are going to see it and say, Hey, what's that? And so a lot of people, so I don't have space for it. I go, then it's not a legacy list item. We got to make space for it. You gotta be able to display it and share it.

And I promise you, your friends will love the stories. They want to hear it. That tells you where you came from and it tells you who you are. And it tells them where you're going. The kids will put up. The value on them before you pass away. Not necessarily after

[00:28:42] Marty Stevens-Heebner: you have these things that inspire you and have such deep meaning and they're in front of you and you can see them.

And each time you look at them, the

[00:28:49] Matt Paxton: reinspired yeah, yeah. That's what I want. And like, one of the things is just know where you're going. I always want to know not physically where you're going, but emotionally, what's the point here? I'm on a diet right now, like aggressively I'm walking five miles a day.

The healthiest I've been in probably 10 years, honestly. And it's because my son asked. Are you going to be a grandpa? And I said, what do you mean your dad died? When he was 52? You're 47. I'm going to be in high school. If you die, when you're 52, he goes, are you going to die? When you're 52? And I was like, I hope not.

And he goes, well, like you drank all that soda and you always eat candy. You say it's bad for you, but you still do it. And he goes, dad, do you want me to clean my room? You won't even stop drinking soda. I want you to be a brand. I'm in tears and he's totally right by the way. And I was getting ready to come up, promote this book.

And I was just like, who am I to tell people what to do with their stuff? If I can't get my own crap in order. And so here's the point I want to be a grandpa. And so I have on my wall, a piece of paper, this is grandpa. So anytime I'm like, I don't want to work out or I want to go eat some pasta. Cause I haven't had pasta in six weeks.

Oh yeah. I'm going to be a grandpa. And that makes me get back. And that's my goal. That's my finish line. That's where I'm going. And so I tell people the same thing. And when you're decluttering, you gotta have your goal. If you want freedom, if you want to still. By yourself. We got to get rid of encyclopedias.

I don't care how much you pay for them. It's all on the phone now. Okay. I just say to people, look, you got to have that goal and you gotta paste it on the wall. I got to see it. It's got to be in my face and I'm going to guilt myself into doing this. And that is a technique pure. Self guilt. And most people over 55 guilt still works under 55.

People are not really guilted. I'll be honest. I'll say, I just really want to put that goal. What do you want to do? Put it in front of you and it makes you stay focused on it. That's really helped me a ton, both professionally and now, personally. And that's

something

[00:30:37] Marty Stevens-Heebner: you emphasize in the book to have a deadline, have a goal.

[00:30:41] Matt Paxton: I'm very linear. I have a timeline. I basically signed my house contract to force myself to follow that guideline because I don't think I ever want to do. And tell the end of the story, but I'm in Georgia and I'm very happy, but it was still scary if you're freaking out about it. Honestly, anyone that's still alive right now listening my God.

If you got through the pandemic and everything you've gone through, I promise you moving is not that big a deal. And it feels like it's, I don't want to minimize the feelings you're going through. You've got all these feelings, you've got all those things that have built on you and wait on you. All right.

They're in your house right now. There's a reason hoarder's houses are like walls of stuff because hoarders feel safe behind those walls. They've been harmed so much by someone in their life create

[00:31:21] Marty Stevens-Heebner: this huge amount of physical armor for themselves to send off the emotional feelings.

[00:31:27] Matt Paxton: And with our own stuff, we do that at a much smaller level just to protect ourselves.

Cause it's easier to stay in this little bubble. And I just remind people, man, I remember the day I went to college, I was like, this is a bad idea. The first day college, first date, all that stuff. Like it's all scary. But a lot of times it works out. And guess what? If it doesn't, you're a strong enough person that you'll figure it out and you'll move on.

You'll find something.

[00:31:48] Marty Stevens-Heebner: It's sometimes going to that worst case scenario, like your mood, for example. Okay. So if I move, I get to be with love of my life and all the pre kids. If I don't move, I give that up.

[00:31:59] Matt Paxton: Yeah. It was on me to make that decision. Like that was a full-time data three, and I knew that this was the best move for us.

And I was like worst case. I can go back to my hometown and I got to tell ya, I don't regret it. I missed some things, but I miss my grandparents' ranch and miss my grandma. I carry that in you. Yeah. It's still there. All those stories are there. They're all inside me. And I'm now making new memories. Joy is a choice.

I really believe positivity is a choice. Then I really want people to start trying to make an effort to live in it. And so really change that perspective if you're going to say, cause my son made me say, because I want to be around my grandchildren, but like the point is I promise you this better stuff on that.

Just gotta be willing to jump. And if you're stuck call professional, there's people out there that whatever you're stuck with really, there's a professional and whatever's holding you back, reach out to them and you don't need to hire someone for a million hours, maybe just two hours. We'll get, you started.

Just try. I promise you it'll be better. And then that's why I wrote the book. I just want people to have hope and know that it will get better

[00:32:55] Marty Stevens-Heebner: and hold. So we can see the beautiful, there it is.

[00:33:00] Matt Paxton: Keep the

[00:33:01] Marty Stevens-Heebner: memories, lose the stuff, declutter, downsize, and move forward with your life. And that can mean moving physically, or it can just be having a space that works for you

[00:33:12] Matt Paxton: brilliantly.

Yeah. I heard a number there that a 93% of people actually age in place, either stay in the home or move to a smaller home nearby. Yeah, I'll have to maybe move into a senior living community. That's okay. Um, we've adjusted our show because of that, because so many people are just moving in with their adult children.

My in-laws just moved in here this week. I have, yes, we have two. And they have three dogs. So dinner is 11 plus three with 14 miles to feed at dinner, but that's okay. It doesn't matter where you're moving in. You just don't let yourself hold you back. Sometimes

[00:33:43] Marty Stevens-Heebner: I'll push myself out to 90 or 95 years old.

Yeah. Will I have regretted not doing this because I don't believe in living life with regret. I mean either. And so what would my 90, 95 year old think about. And 95 year old, Matt is awfully

[00:33:57] Matt Paxton: glad you moved. Oh yeah. I have my wife there. She's like, are you okay? Are you happy with being here? I go. I wouldn't be here.

If it wasn't happy here, I'd already Virginia. Now I've learned if you've taken a chance on love or life. It's not really a chance. You're just looking at a new viewpoint, but you can always go back if you don't like it. And I guarantee you half the people won't even know.

I got to call her there. He guys, Hey man, you want to go down to the river, go for a walk. And I'm like, dude, I moved a year ago. He's like you did. And I was like, yeah, the pandemic has changed lights so much that I do think in a positive way, it's helped us focus more on our family and at home now more than ever, if you're thinking about whatever that move is, whatever the situational changes.

If you're not. The doing is where the joy is. It's the deciding and taking action and proving to yourself that, Hey man, I did it at 73. I'm a bad ass man. I did something cool. I didn't think I could do it. That's where the joy comes

[00:34:53] Marty Stevens-Heebner: from and a life fully live. Yes. Sit yourself down with your fear and any resistance.

So how. Get themselves moving forward. What kind of tips do you have for them?

[00:35:03] Matt Paxton: I got a bunch. First one is find your finish line. What's your goal? Where are you going? So many people call me and they're like, I need to move. Great. Where are you moving? Oh, I don't know, but tell me what furniture I should take.

You know, actually I need to know where you're going. So understand where you're going to understand what your finish line is and then why I think the why is so important. Are you moving for freedom? Are you moving to be closer to. Right that why down and put it on the wall. Start slow. That's number two, start slow.

I'm all about a 10 minutes a week. Start for 10 minutes. I used to run marathons. Believe it or not. And you don't start off by running 26 miles. You walk one, right? You walk one mile. We've all done. Speeches where you ask people in the audience. How long have you lived in your house? Five years, 10 years, 20 years.

And a lot of times it gets into 50. If it took you 50 years to fill your house, you're not going to clean it in a long weekend. And in fact, that's the worst way to do it. Start slow. I tell people start and final jeopardy. When they say, Hey, we're going away for final deputy, you got 10 minutes. It's find a little one foot by one foot area and start cleaning that out.

Start organizing it and start small. I like a junk drawer or one shelf somewhere that's easy. That's achievable because you need to be able to know that you did it. You need to be able to feel successful. So underwear tour is great. Throw out the ones that don't fit and have holes in them. Real simple. If you're on photos, when you have doubles, just get rid of the duplicates.

That's it. Vince. It's a 10 minutes week. Stop come back the next day for 10 minutes. I promise you, you do that five, six nights a week. You're going to start to really feel it. But if you like, Hey, go clean the garage today. And you're 12 hours in. It just kills you. And you're like, you know what? Nevermind.

If you try too big and you try to bite off too big of a bite, you're going to fail. You're just setting yourself up for failure. And the whole point is to like finish this. And I'm really big about donate. I want you to invest a lot of time here. I am all about donating. You will be disappointed in what you sell.

I promise you there's rare exceptions, but for the most part, you think it is worth more than it's going to sell for. Settling is an act of a third-party giving you an independent value for. It's not someone saying your dad paid 50, so I'll give you a 51. You're gonna be disappointed. So you will not be disappointed with donating.

So please focus on finding a nonprofit that, that fits your mission, that you really dig and go donate. And it may just be a person like the story and the book about the guy with the tools. It's the greatest stories. And this woman, her husband, he was a. And her kids wanted to sell the tool set. It was worth about 40 grand and a significant amount of money.

She didn't need it, but it was still hard to walk away from, but there was a mentor that she really wanted to give them to. And I don't want to spoil the story, read the book, but she made a choice and I'm telling you me and I got a thousand of those stories and then it's gonna be pretty easy. You sell a few items.

I go, I go Facebook marketplace. If it doesn't sound like I give it away in the local buy nothing groups on Facebook. And then the other one, like have a friend present. The last one is tell the stories document. Please hit record. Everybody's phone has a recorder on it. You hit recorder, and then you'll be able to just tell the stories, man.

And you can hear some amazing

[00:38:01] Marty Stevens-Heebner: things. It's expensive to get them

[00:38:03] Matt Paxton: transcribed. No, not at all. I'm really big on video. Now, when families started doing these zoom legacy. It puts grandma on camera and it puts a timestamp on everybody. I really love that grandmas are doing this. Now. It blew my mind that people were doing it, but they're like sharing stories once a month or every other month.

And they say, grandma, tell us about this. Tell us about that and think about this in 20 years, we're probably watching like on a headset, that's implanted in our head, but someone's going to watch and be like, dude, look at uncle Tommy. He had hae her or he had blonde hair, not gray, or gosh, I found a picture of my dad the other day and I was like, guys, this was my.

This is grandpa. And they're like, he had an earring. I'm like, yeah. And they realized I had an ear and I was like, yeah, actually grandpa had my dad the day my mom got remarried. The day before my dad took us all out to get earrings, my brother and myself and him. Now at the time, I thought it was really cool in hindsight, like horrible news for my dad to get us all hearings, but there was a story and I still have a hole in my ear for the rest of my life, but like get those stories because I promise you, they're going to actually give you joy and it's going to help you get through this process.

And then you're going to find out that some people want the items now because the story. That's my tips and buy my book. That's my last tip.

[00:39:13] Marty Stevens-Heebner: Yeah. Do yourself a huge favor and get a copy of, keep the memories, lose the stuff downsize and move forward with your life. It's wonderful while you're at it, get a copy for someone you love, because they'll appreciate it.

It

[00:39:27] Matt Paxton: is buy one and give it to them. They give it to him. Cause I don't want to clean up two copies in your house in 15 years. I want to find one copy of your house or get the Kindle

[00:39:37] Marty Stevens-Heebner: or the audible.

[00:39:39] Matt Paxton: However you consume the book. I hope it'll help you and give you some hope and some focus on some joy, listen,

vital

[00:39:44] Marty Stevens-Heebner: information.

There there's lots of resources. Oh,

[00:39:47] Matt Paxton: the resource section. That's the best part of the whole book. And most people that are interviewing me have not gone to the end of the book. So they don't know about the resource section. So here's the best part. It's got the top a hundred items that people always call in and ask me about a collaborative with a RP on this book.

And I've done a lot of online classes for them. I get thousands of questions when I do those classes. And so we took the hundreds of. Items that people have about piano, China, whatever. And I tell you where to donate it or where to sell. So if you're in a hurry, you go to the back and you'd be like, oh, piano, where do I go?

And it has all the charities you can give your piano to. And then after that junk removal, movers, a cleaning company, cleaning supplies, any supplies that I think you might need, it's all there with their websites. And the updated version is on my legacy list.com the TV show website. And you're going to try to do it.

We've done a lot of the work for you. It's all there. If you need a move manager, you're going to go right to NASA and find your local news. And ASAM

[00:40:36] Marty Stevens-Heebner: stands for national association of senior in specialty move

[00:40:39] Matt Paxton: managers. If that's the only thing you take from this podcast, if you're stuck, call us senior movement who should go to nasa.org, find a move manager, and they're just as passionate and just excited to hear your stories as we are with keeps it

[00:40:51] Marty Stevens-Heebner: memories, lose.

It has obviously vital information, but also it is beautifully written. It's very easy to read. So get yourself a copy and just enjoy it. And

[00:41:03] Matt Paxton: you put it to use. Thank you. I had a co-writer he really gained of my best friends and we worked and worked together. I can tell the story all day long, but I can't get it on paper.

And he really helped me get it the right way. So, and I think you'll laugh probably more than you can. But you'll know what to do and to

[00:41:17] Marty Stevens-Heebner: get started. And y'all hear what other people have come up against what Matt came up against with his own move. Yes.

[00:41:23] Matt Paxton: Each chapter I do follow one of my tips. It outlines it all the way through, and then it gives you an entire story of one of my clients along the way.

You'll relate with somebody in there. And you'll think about your mom. You're probably gonna want to call your mom, honestly, when you finished the book and just tell her you like. Uh, and if you don't, you probably should go over and visit, listen to stories and hanging out. Thank you

[00:41:42] Marty Stevens-Heebner: for taking the time to be here.

It's just great. Thank

[00:41:44] Matt Paxton: you for doing this podcast. It's the podcast they need to be made, and I love listening to it as well.

[00:41:48] Marty Stevens-Heebner: Thank you for that endorsement. I appreciate

[00:41:50] Matt Paxton: it.

[00:41:50] Marty Stevens-Heebner: Thank you so much for listening to, how to move your mom and still be on speaking terms afterward. Please visit www.howtomoveyourmom.com for more information about this episode and for additional podcast episodes, featuring other extraordinary guests and conversations. Until next time, this is your very grateful host Morty Stevens-Heebner.